TAMIKA LEE: Can you state your full name for me?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Erma Scott Bridgewater:
TAMIKA LEE: Okay. You work at the City of Champaign. You've
worked at it for 24 years, right?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yes.
TAMIKA LEE: Can you tell me, what kind of work did you do there?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Throughout the 24 years, I was first at
Douglass Center, director of Douglass Center. And then, later on
I went back to the City in community development, or rather,
urban renewal first and then community development. So I've been
in two different jobs.
TAMIKA LEE: Okay. How long have you been retired?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Since 1982.
TAMIKA LEE: When you were younger, what did you wanna become,
and why?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: When I started out, I said I wanted to be a
p.e. teacher-when I was in high school. But I went on to the
university and took p.e., and I wasn't as good as I thought I
was gonna be so [chuckle] I changed to sociology.
TAMIKA LEE: So you wanted to be a p.e. teacher because you were
really good at p.e.? You thought you were?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: I don't know. I just thought that it was
something I wanted to do.
TAMIKA LEE: How has your education helped prepare you for what
you do for a living?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, I took--My degree was in sociology, and
soon after I finished, the School of Social Work began. But in
sociology, it helped me in everything I-of course, I went into
recreation, and it helped me there. I didn't have any courses in
recreation when I started.
TAMIKA LEE: You said, looking back in the information that you
gave in a different interview, you stated you forgot you had a
degree in sociology and--
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: No, what I meant there was-I guess it's what
you're talking about-is I went to work at Douglass Center as
director. The people that were there at the time were working
WPA, Works Progress Administration. And I was coming to them,
not knowing anything about recreation, and I was from the other
side of town, from the south, 'cause we lived on Ells Avenue,
with a degree. And I just was not accepted because I was from
the other side of the tracks and all that, and had been to
college and had a degree. So I learned. The way they treated me
was an advantage in the end, and I was glad because it made me
realize that I had to learn how to get along with people. And it
was a good lesson, and as I said, I had to swallow that degree
and forget that I ever had it, ever got it, in order to get
along. 'Cause one of the first things that happened was they
had-they were in the habit of having breakfast together there at
the Center, and the Center at that time was a house, a six-room
house. They were in the habit of having breakfast together on a
Saturday morning. Well, I didn't know that, and I had already
had breakfast. So when they asked me if I'd like to eat with
them, I said no, I'd had breakfast. So then, the attitude was,
"She won't even eat with us." So as I said, I learned to-it
helped me because, for instance, the director-After all,
everybody that was there knew recreation, knew what they were
doing. I didn't; I was just, you know, there over them and
employed by the City of Champaign when they were employed
through WPA. So in all the areas, I was not very much liked. So
as I said, I swallowed my degree and got along with everybody
after that.
TAMIKA LEE: Okay. I understand you were born in 1930. Can you-
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Huh-uh.
TAMIKA LEE: --give me-
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: 1913.
TAMIKA LEE: I mean, 1913.
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yeah.
TAMIKA LEE: I'm sorry. I was thinking about when you graduated
from college.
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: No.
TAMIKA LEE: Okay. Can you give me an example of being a young
African-American, growing up in Champaign-Urbana?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, living in the south part of Champaign,
at that time we went to neighborhood schools. And my brother and
I were the only ones in the school. We went to Lincoln School,
which is now an apartment building on the corner of State Street
and Healey. And it was integrated. We integrated it, I guess you
might say, 'cause it was just the two of us. But we got along
fairly well. I learned to-well, I played with white children
that were in the neighborhood, 'cause they were in the
neighborhood that I lived in. For social things, we went-Our
church was Bethel Church in this end of town. So I'd say it was
an advantage. There were some times when things weren't quite as
nice as they might've been, but then I got a good education
there.
TAMIKA LEE: Can you tell me how you felt, what feelings came
across you every time you walked up into Lincoln School, knowing
that you and your brother were the only two blacks?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: There were problems like during games, nobody
would want to-they wouldn't want to hold my hand. But the
teachers were-understood the problem, and they would find some
other way to solve it.
TAMIKA LEE: Can you give me some examples of when y'all played
games, like an example?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, there was one game when we held hands in
a line, and the person-the other side-we had sides. The other
side would run to break through, and that was one of those games
where they didn't wanna hold hands with me. But some games I
played and some I didn't. Some I watched.
TAMIKA LEE: Other than the games, other than them not wanting to
hold hands in the games and stuff, how were you treated
basically in school?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, you know, there were children there
whose parents were teachers at the university. I remember one or
two of them. It seemed that those children treated me much
better than some of the others, some of the-Well, I guess it was
a difference in class, in a way. But anyhow, yeah, it was-Of
course, being a child, you'd just play with whomever would play
with you, and you'd go on from there.
TAMIKA LEE: I know you graduated in 1930. Exactly what year did
you graduate from college?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: 1937.
TAMIKA LEE: And you said that your degree was in
social-sociology?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Sociology.
TAMIKA LEE: What was your first job when you graduated out of
college?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: My first job was a maid at Newman Hall.
TAMIKA LEE: What got you into that? Were you pressured into it?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: [chuckle] Well, I'd looked for a job and
couldn't find any, and my mother was working there at Newman
Hall, and I felt like I had to help repay my parents for the
money they'd spent for me to go to school. So I got a job there
and worked. I think it was a couple of years. I didn't wanna
leave town. I didn't wanna leave Champaign. I don't know whether
it was because I was scared or what, but I never wanted to
leave. I always wanted to stay here. So eventually I did, with
my dad's help-he knew some people. And I was able to get another
job.
TAMIKA LEE: What are some of the experiences being a maid at
Newman Hall?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, there was a woman-the thing, I guess,
that bothered me most was there was a woman there that was the
head of it, who always-my paycheck-well, we had-I think it was
$1.60 an hour we were making then. Every time I got my pay, some
of the money was gone. It seems that she would take some money
out of it, 'cause she figured that she was teaching us, you
know, teaching us how. Well, she did teach. She did. But then,
that part always bothered me. And she let my mother go, and I
don't know why she thought I'd stay there after she did that,
but I quit.
TAMIKA LEE: What were some of the expectations that your family
had for you?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: They-my dad was employed at the university as
a mail carrier, and my parents-they didn't ask me if I wanted to
go to college. They just took it for granted that I was going,
and I always understood that that was what I was supposed to do.
So I was expected to go to college.
TAMIKA LEE: You stated you went to Bethel Church?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Mm-hmm.
TAMIKA LEE: What role did the church play in your life?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, a pretty big role. Well, in the earlier
years, that was about the only thing to do. At Bethel we had
Sunday school in the afternoon, on Sunday afternoon. And that
was the place to go on Sunday, and then go to the Baptist
Church, to BYPU, to see the boys.
TAMIKA LEE: Did you say you got a good education?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yeah, I did. I mean, I was exposed to a good
one. Now I was an average student. I wasn't an A or B student; I
was average.
TAMIKA LEE: I mean, by how they treated you in school, not
playing games. Did that distract you from--
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: No, one of the things I was thinking about
today, that being the only black child there helped me in some
ways. One of the things that I remember, the teacher would call
on different people to read, and there were some kids that
didn't read very well. And that was one of the things I'd
decided I really wanted. I didn't want 'em to feel bad when it
came my time to read, because if you're reading and story and
then you get to somebody that has to be told every two or three
words, then it takes the fun out of it. So I didn't wanna be one
of those people, so I spent my time learning to read, and I
liked spelling.
TAMIKA LEE: Were there any other subjects you liked in school?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Music. We had a music teacher who came, you
know, from one school to another. And I had had some music at
home. My father played an instrument. And, of course, I liked
music, and I was always glad when she came.
TAMIKA LEE: I read that you were good in music. Can you tell me
some-
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: One of the things that happened with music was
we had music appreciation where we learned the authors, the
composers of the music, a whole string of things about a piece,
and then, the teacher would play just a part of one and we were
to write down what it was and so on. We had contests there at
Lincoln School, and I was passed on-did well on it, had a
perfect paper and went on to the next stage, which was where all
the different schools were together. And anybody who passed that
was to go on to the State. But the only mistake they found on my
paper was it said that I had an extra hump on an M, and maybe I
did-I don't know. But anyhow, I wasn't allowed to go. And, of
course, I always felt like there was another reason why I didn't
get to go.[chuckle]
TAMIKA LEE: How did you feel? Did you feel--
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, naturally I felt back about it, but my
parents were the kind of people who said, you know, just don't
pay any attention to it, just go on.
TAMIKA LEE: Some other people stated in other interviews how
their counselors really encouraged them. Did you feel that way?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: That was in high school. Yeah, counselors did
not-well, let's see, how do I wanna put it? We were given our
schedules or for parents to help us with our schedules, to take
them home, and the parents would help us with our schedules.
Well, they would tell us not to take college preparatory
courses. They didn't say it that way, but they would say that we
couldn't-they didn't feel like we could pass algebra or
geometry. And my parents had decided I was going to college, so
they always signed up for me to take those courses, and I took
French too. And I passed it, no great shakes, but I did pass.
But they didn't encourage us to take college preparatory
courses.
TAMIKA LEE: I also remember from another interview where a
person stated that the counselor was right. Did you ever feel
that way?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: The counselor was right?
TAMIKA LEE: Yeah, about y'all not taking the college--
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: No, I didn't. No, they were wrong.
TAMIKA LEE: So you always felt they were wrong?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yeah. My parents did too, 'cause they always
said that I had to go ahead and take the courses?
TAMIKA LEE: Were there things that happened to you in school
that shaped how you view people of other races?
[ed.note: Brief interruption from third party entering room at
this point, followed by continued interview.]
TAMIKA LEE: Were there things that happened to you in school
that shaped how you viewed other people, I mean, people of other
races?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: I don't know. I never thought about it.
TAMIKA LEE: Like were there like experiences you had, you said
games, but were there things that shaped how you felt about
other people of other races?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: I don't remember any in particular.
TAMIKA LEE: Were there any good-
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yeah, I've had good friends. I haven't
associated with too many people other than white people, I don't
think. I don't remember.
TAMIKA LEE: So they were basically the people you hung out with
the most?.
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yeah, in my earlier years in grade school.
TAMIKA LEE: Which school experiences or outside school
experiences shaped your understanding of segregation and
integration? You stated how you and your brother hung together
at the school basically. Was that one of the experiences that
shaped your understanding?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: There's an incident-well, you know, I told you
about the swimming.
TAMIKA LEE: Mm-hmm.
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: But in the university, I had an instructor
who-she was an English teacher. And there were two of us in the
class, another girl and I, and we-she was seating us, seating
the class. She had us all stand around the wall-everybody
there-and she started seating us alphabetically. The other
girl's name was Barbie-it started with a B. And she passed by
her name, and when she got to mine, it started with an S-she
passed by it. And we were left, the two of us, we were left
standing. And then, she seated us. Well, it was embarrassing, of
course, everybody looking around at us, wondering, you know,
what's happening to us. So I told my dad about it. He was at the
university at that time. And he went to Mr. Lee who worked in
the president's office. Mr. Lee spoke to the president, and the
president called in the head of the department, and he called in
the person-the teacher. So it got all the way around, and she
called us in. Well, I needed the course in order to-I was in
LAS. So I had to take it. So I had to learn that I had to get
along with the lady. But she said some-she said that-her excuse
was that there are a lot of things that she would like to that's
she not able to do. And she brought up one thing that I never
did understand. She said one thing that disturbed her was that
she didn't know how to play a harp, and she didn't know what
would happen to her when she got to heaven. Well, the way she
was acting, I wasn't so sure she was gonna get there. [chuckle]
Anyhow, that did-you know, it made me realize that some people
aren't as nice as they should be. And, of course, there were
things that happened at that time-there was no place for us to
eat on campus. And there was a man that had a wagon there near
the library, where he sold apples and candy. So I would buy a
candy bar and an apple and go into the library restroom to eat.
So there were things that happened. And when we went to the
theaters, we had to sit up in the balcony. But we did what
we-sometimes we objected to some of those things, and finally
they have changed, more or less.
TAMIKA LEE: You were just stating-having to sit up in the
balcony. How did that go?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, it wasn't too good. We would go-we were
expected to go clear up to the top of the balcony, for instance
in the Virginia. And the ushers would leave, and of course, we'd
move down-eventually move down, you know, and they didn't wanna
bother to make us go back up, 'cause that's more trouble than
lettin' us alone. But at times now when I go to the theater, I
still go to the back. At one of the theaters, what is now the
Art Theater-it was Park-we had to sit down in the front row,
right up in the picture. So those are things that happened then
that fortunately have changed.
TAMIKA LEE: In our interviews, they also stated about how the
AME Church helped the community. Do you remember about the AME
Church and what they did for the community?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: They had a playground that was on Ells Avenue,
right across the street from where we lived, and they had tennis
and softball games that were played there. That was-and they had
an orchestra with the Sunday School, which was different than
some of the other churches had. They had a library, books. They
loaned out books--on University Avenue-I don't know exactly
where that was. But that's a few of the things that I can
remember.
TAMIKA LEE: How was it like going to the U of I in the 1930's?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, as I said, there was no place to eat on
campus. Some of the men students worked on campus, served meals
in some of the sororities and fraternities, and were able to get
their own meals that way. I don't know. We stayed pretty much to
ourselves. The sororities and fraternities had parties, and
that's where the fun came in.
TAMIKA LEE: Did you like any sports?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Did I take part? I didn't take part in any,
not until-well, I can't say that. When I was working at Douglass
Center, I wasn't active in the sports, but I was with the boys
and girls that were active in sports. But the only sport I've
been active in is swimming.
TAMIKA LEE: Do you have any questions, anybody have any
follow-up questions?
Q: When Mrs. Bridgewater had talked to you about the swimming
pool. Was she talking about it when you were recording, or was
that a story that was off?
TAMIKA LEE: Which one?
Q: The swimming pool. She had mentioned that? Were you recording
then?
TAMIKA LEE: Yeah, 'cause we were standing up and then we sat
down and we had the same conversation.
Q: Right. So [inaudible] the school, do you know anything about
Mrs. Bridgewater's junior high or high school experience?
TAMIKA LEE: In the other interview you stated that you went to
Edison.
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yeah, Edison School was the high school when I
was-that was the only high school when I was going to school.
TAMIKA LEE: Was that segregated or desegregated?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: It was desegregated, except that most of the
black kids came from this area, and I imagine they still do.
They went in the door on the east side, and the other kids went
to the front door on Green Street. And that got to be habit with
all of us, I guess. It was normal, I mean, after all, you're
coming from this way, and so, you go in through the east door.
And if you come from some place else, you come into the other
door. But that was the senior high school at that time. And
then, when my kids went to school, it was junior high, and then
it was 7th, 8th, and 9th grades when they went there.
TAMIKA LEE: So Edison was the high school?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yeah, it was the only high school.
TAMIKA LEE: What junior high school did you attend?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, we had 8th grade-I went to Lincoln
School 1st through 7th. Then the 8th grade was downtown, Central
School they called it. It was in a building near where the old
post office on Randall Street-that was the 8th grade. Then we
went on to high school.
TAMIKA LEE: Was the 8th grade segregated or integrated?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: No, it was integrated.
TAMIKA LEE: How did you like going?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Well, you see, I went to integrated schools
all the way through. My children didn't. They went to
Washington, Willard and Lawhead and then went to Edison. So
their experience was a little different, but then they survived
it okay.
TAMIKA LEE: We heard something about Willard and Lawhead. Did
your kids come home with any problems when they were attending
those schools?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: No, I don't-not especially. One of the things
that was happening at that time, when I stayed at home until
they were all in school, and then I went back to work. And when
they got out of school, they came to Douglass Center. So I
really had a break there 'cause I didn't have to have sitters
for that day, because they were in the program at Douglass.
Male: Those were neighborhood schools. So what was it like to
have kids go to neighborhood schools?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: I liked it, and as a matter of fact, when they
changed, you know, when they started busing the kids out to
other schools, I said that if they were going to make this
Washington a magnet school, I wish they had done it and left the
kids in it. But I realize that's selfish, but that would've
helped them more than being scattered out all over, some of
them, you know, in schools where they weren't getting along or
weren't wanted or something or other.
Male: So you think busing hurt?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Yeah.
Male: Or was not as advantageous to blacks--
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: You're right. I don't think it was.
Male: Okay.
TAMIKA LEE: I have one more question: If you had a message for
young African-American kids today, what would it be?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Go to school! Stay in there and finish!
TAMIKA LEE: Hang in there, huh?
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Hang in there!
TAMIKA LEE: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you for the
interview. It was nice meeting you.
ERMA BRIDGEWATER: Nice seeing you too.
TAMIKA LEE: Thank you. I enjoyed it.
back to top |
|
listen
to the Erma Bridgewater interview