MARKISHA MOTTON: What is your full name, sir?
IVON RIDGEWAY: My name is Ivon Ridgeway.
MARKISHA MOTTON: How old are you?
IVON RIDGEWAY: I'm 52 years old.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Okay. What education do your parents have?
IVON RIDGEWAY: My mother did not graduate from high school, and
my father, I believe did not as well.
MARKISHA MOTTON: How was your education in middle school and
high school and college, if you went?
IVON RIDGEWAY: I'm sorry. I didn't understand the question.
MARKISHA MOTTON: How is your education today?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, I would say that there's always a need for
more. I have achieved what I would have liked to achieve as far
as scholastic wise. But I have some great deal of college, and
I'm also continuously self taught in the process of education,
in reading and so on and so forth.
MARKISHA MOTTON: What did your parents expect of you at school?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Of course, to do the best in that period of time
or that era. We were always told to strive to do the best that
we could and to focus on education as much as we could.
MARKISHA MOTTON: What was your family like growing up?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, I grew up in a very loving family. I grew
up also-In that particular era it was the statement or cliché
that it takes a village to raise a child, so there was a
combination or collaboration of all folks from the neighborhood.
So you had your immediate family, but you also had loads of
extended family within the community.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Was you neighborhood mostly African-American or
Caucasian?
IVON RIDGEWAY: It was all African-American.
MARKISHA MOTTON: All African-American? What things couldn't you
do as an African-American now?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, I guess considering Champaign-Urbana in the
mid-'50's, early '60's, there was not a great deal of hindrance
in this community. There was a period before that time, but in
our era, in the baby boomers, I don't think there was a great
deal of restrictions. Or at least, I never saw it because I
never accepted restrictions.
MARKISHA MOTTON: What was the climate of an African-American
male through school or home or just out in public?
IVON RIDGEWAY: At times, it could be very challenging. Without
really understanding the broader picture of what segregation had
impact on my peers, we had the restrictions, but keep in mind,
it was a very progressive period going on with the Martin Luther
King movement, Malcolm X, Stokely Carmichael, H. Rap Brown.
There were so many things going on that we never felt that we,
here again, were very hindered. So as a black man or as a young
black male, we were still very aggressive in challenging
whatever it might be, whether it was sports, whether it was the
school, whether it was housing. Places where they said that
blacks or "Negroes" were not accepted at that point, I mean, we
just never really took that. We never accepted the shackles.
That's the way I could probably say it.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Leaders like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X,
did you look up to any of those people?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Yes, I had-there were several individuals, the
ones I mentioned previously-Martin Luther King, of course, was a
very dynamic speaker. He probably opened the media so that all
people in this country and around the world would be exposed to
the unjustice that was going on in the nation. Malcolm X was
someone I identified with because I liked his approach. And in
the period that I was coming up in, some of us, and in
particular, some of my peers were not prone to the
turn-the-other-cheek mentality. And, of course, H. Rap Brown and
Stokely Carmichael were very-and also Hughy P. Newton and oh, I
can't think of the other gentleman's name that was a part of
that Black Panther organization. But there were so many things
going on that those were individuals that I started to
understand as I was understanding the world at that point in my
life.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Did any of your African-American brothers
encourage you to do things that weren't right throughout school
or in your neighborhood?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, there were always the-If you grew up in the
African-American community, black community, Negro community,
depending on which era or which period of time that you like to
reflect back on, which would be a great deal of me growing up
and my life, there were all types of individuals in our
community. There were entrepreneurs; there were, of course,
ministers. We had African-American teachers, and that was males
and females-principals. I went to an all-black school when I
first started out. So there were so many different exposures
that we had. And so, you could choose your idols. Now influence
wise, of course, there was a guy that I'll never forget, that I
idolized when I was a young fellow, and he name was Count Demon.
He was a musician. He used to come into Champaign-Urbana on the
weekend, and he was-I guess this was when gentlemen or
African-American men were wearing processes. So this was a
hairstyle, and so, as kids, when we were little boys riding
bikes, we would go to the barbershop and watch these older guys
on Thursdays or Fridays or Saturdays, get all prepared to go out
and play in the bands and those types of things. You know,
depending on what you were looking for. I could take on the
other side, Mr. Stratton, which was very instrumental in my life
as a mentor. Of course, Stratton School is named after him. I
grew up with his children, and they were also a part of the
church that I belonged to, which is another big, major influence
in my life also-was the church. So there were positives and
negatives that you could've-whatever choice that you had. But I
was fortunate enough to be exposed to all of it and make some
choices.
MARKISHA MOTTON: What church did you attend, sir?
IVON RIDGEWAY: I belonged to Bethel Church here in Champaign on
4th and Park. That's where I grew up, was baptized when I was a
little boy.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Do you still attend that church today?
IVON RIDGEWAY: No, actually I've changed and went to a different
denomination, but I still am affiliated with the church, and it
still always will be my home.
MARKISHA MOTTON: As a young African-American male, were there
any church incidents involving racism of any kind? Did your
church boycott?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, in the later years, I guess we'd be looking
at from '67 on up, and we had a very progressive minister that
was also very instrumental in my direction of life, which was a
minister named Reverend Ramsey, that had been placed here at our
church, at Bethel Church. He was very progressive and had
challenged some of the Civil Rights movements, and we were
becoming more aware of different entities such as NAACP, Urban
League, and so on and so forth. Now, of course, that attributed
to Mr. Barkstahl and so many other individuals at that period of
time. But there were things where the church boycotted whether
it was right to vote or being able to get folks collectively
together to vote or whatever project that we felt like there was
some injustice going on in our community.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Is there an incident that you remember that you
participated in boycotting or protesting?
IVON RIDGEWAY: There's a host of them. We wouldn't have enough
time for all of them, and that could be from riots to a host of
things, to be perfectly honest. Sure, there was a lot of
peaceful boycotts, but I also was a part of a lot of things that
we challenged the system from more of an aggressive perspective.
So I could just really mention several of them. There was a
hotbed in this particular town and in this area around '67, '66,
going on up to the early '70's. And so, whether it was at school
where we had clashes from a racial perspective or whether it was
the accusations of the police killing African-Americans, whether
it was at the county jail or whether someone had been shot in
our neighborhood by the police, as I said, there's a numerous
amount of instances where I could reflect back on things that I
personally was involved in.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Do you remember boycotting anything at school?
IVON RIDGEWAY: We boycotted-as a matter of fact, I can remember
the day when Martin Luther King was killed. We walked out of
school. You know? We did a lot of boycotting at Centennial. When
I was going to Franklin in junior high school, I don't think we
were really prepared for some of the things that were going on.
We just didn't understand it at that time, but by the time we
were sophomores and I went to Centennial Senior High School,
there were a lot of challenges going on, because it was a very
hot period of time in the nation, and there was great deal of
separatism. And we were challenging a host of things. An example
would be that we didn't necessarily care for the treatment that
we were receiving because we were being bused to Centennial and
not having the choice to go-because we lived in the north end of
Champaign, so we felt like why did we have to go to Centennial.
We should've been able to go to Central High School. So there
were a lot of things that we challenged and were very outspoken
about and changed.
MARKISHA MOTTON: When you at Franklin, are there any teachers
that you remember that encouraged you or discouraged you to take
classes that would help you later on in life?
IVON RIDGEWAY: I can give you several instances on that as well.
There's a gentleman-I just mentioned him yesterday in a
conversation, Mr. Spears, he's an 8th grade teacher. And he
probably was one of the most, I would say, very positive
individuals with all people. And I thought-And I still respect
him to this day, which has been 35, 38 years ago. But I learned
something from Mr. Spears, and I'll give you just a quick, brief
example. There was a young man that was in our class, and I went
to grade school with him. He had some type of issues, and I'll
just leave it at that perspective. I found out later through Mr.
Spears sometimes and, of course, I wasn't the best kid, the best
student in the world either at that point. But one thing Mr.
Spears shared with our class is that this young man that I was
mentioning just a moment ago had the highest IQ in the school.
Now you never would've known it, but he took the time to seek
that and try to pull out the best of that young man. I can give
you another example of my 9th grade year of taking algebra. I
never have forgotten this experience because I have made this
argument for many years since then, that the approach of some of
the ways the teachers were teaching, I think they missed the
point because of the difference and make up of so many different
children, and it wasn't just a simple black and white way of
approaching it. My point to all of it with this particular
teacher is that I never thought that she gave me the opportunity
or really shared with me to learn that particular subject. And
she did not do me a good favor in my life with that particular
class.
MARKISHA MOTTON: So do you feel like your African-American
brothers were not being treated fairly in school?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Oh, I could almost be willing to say to 80% yes,
and I'll just add to another story with this one. We were in
high school, and this happened to be an African-American
counselor, and the big thing that we all said in our community
as we were headed towards school, and this was whether we would
walk to school or whether we were being bused to school,
speaking of how the counselors handled this. And, of course, we
had white counselors and black counselors. We had one black
counselor. And the gentleman, I can remember having a lot of
challenges with him. And keep in mind that out of my peers, I
just didn't accept what someone said. I would always seek as
much information as I could and, of course, I had a vision in my
mind of what I wanted to do when I was a young fellow. But the
gentleman really tried to hinder us and so many other
counselors, because they did not want us to take maybe a foreign
language or something in an elective such as photography or
whatever or even drafting or something to that effect. What they
thought was best for us was shop. And the same thing for the
sisters. The best for them was homemaking. So we disagreed with
all of those, and we challenged 'em. And my example with that
was my sophomore year, and my first class of my first hour
everyday was German. Never did very well in it. But my point
was, "How dare you tell me what I can and cannot take." So,
yeah, and that goes back to when I was a young man.
MARKISHA MOTTON: I remember you said 80% of the African-American
males were not being treated fairly. At Edison, there was a
story where the African-American males would have to go into the
basement and they would be taught very little there. Did
anything like that happen at Franklin, or did you hear of such
things happening to young African-American males back then?
IVON RIDGEWAY: I would probably say-I love how she says "back
then"-[chuckle] but I would probably that that was before my
time. And it most likely would have been in the period of the
'40's or I would say the late '30's or '40's when Edison was the
Champaign High School, and maybe then just thereafter-and maybe
the late '40's or the early '50's. But by the time we had come
along, there was much more of a better standard. There were a
lot of outspoken people in our community, African-Americans in
our community that challenged a lot of that. So our process was
much more the norm of even what you young folks experience
today. So there was no barbaric instances where we were shuffled
away into some corner or something. And our parents did not
accept that either. They took very much pride is us getting an
education, and they just wanted us to do the right thing and for
us to be proud of ourselves. They would stand up for us as well.
MARKISHA MOTTON: When people told you that you should take the
workshop classes, basically telling you that you weren't gonna
be, you know, "professional" as you grew up, how did that make
you feel, and did that make you wanna do better in school?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Personally, myself, I rejected it. So keep in
mind, I grew up and I can remember in the 4th and 5th grade is
when John Glenn and all of those guys went into space, so I was
inspired by that, of wanting to be an astronaut and an aviation
pilot. Although I probably could have never really done it.
[chuckle] But it was something that was my vision, my dream. So
my point to all of that is that I refused to settle for second
best. And most of my friends that had any interest in school
also felt the same way. I'll give you an example. One of my best
friends passed away a few weeks ago, a gentleman named Robert
Winfrey. And I can remember in our sophomore year, walking down
the hall, going to our fifth, our last class, which was English.
And he said to me, "I wanna be a journalist." And it caught be
off guard, and I've never forgotten that. So we all had dreams
and visions of things that we truly wanted to be. And that was
inspired by our parents because we had seen our parents working
at-an example would be my grandmother. I can remember when I was
4 or 5, working out by Hessel Park, which is hard to believe,
but at that time it was predominantly all white or was all
white. And she was a housekeeper. And so, most of the
African-American parents worked in service entry jobs, whether
it be at the base or some on campus. There was not a great deal
of African-Americans on campus at that particularly time
working. So there were very limited jobs. Either you laid
asphalt or something to that effect. So our generation did not
want that. We felt like we had other skills and we had other
things to offer. That's why I say there was more of an
aggressive attitude from our generation, because we had seen
some things. Of course, the exposure to television, more
reading, even some of the things that were offered in school
gave us the opportunity to look at the world from a different
window or to see it in a different perspective. So we just did
not really accept it. And I could speak for the Champaign-Urbana
area. I'm sure if you went further south, and I always say past
the Mason-Dixon line, of course, the dynamics were much
different and you were forced to accept things. Well, we weren't
forced to accept things quite as much in this area.
MARKISHA MOTTON: What do you do for a living now, and how long
have you done it, and did you wanna do it as a young man growing
up, maybe in high school?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, I'm into broadcasting, and I'm also a radio
announcer, and I have pretty much been doing that for the last 8
years. Actually, I thought about it. I wanted to be in some form
of music, but that was also besides that astronaut vision that I
had. I also would have loved to have been a part of Motown, to
be a choreographer or something like, because I used to love to
dance when I was young. I still do like to dance. But that was
more of the thing that I think I was striving for to achieve.
But I've been very comfortable and blessed in what I've done.
Probably one other thing as I've gotten older that I probably
would have loved to achieve, and it's never too late, is I
achieved a passion for history, which I did not have any
interest when I was in high school. So I've spent a lot of time
in the last 20 years or more studying history, and that's all
forms of it. Probably sparked that interest-there again,
probably would've gave me the opportunity if I had done that
when I was a little younger. Of course, anybody had hindsight.
Of course, we could do a lot of things. But I would have loved
to have been a professor at some university, teaching history.
MARKISHA MOTTON: What kind of history do you like more? Do you
like the black history, back in slavery days, or just all around
history?
IVON RIDGEWAY: I like a combination of all. I like all around
history. I'm always interested in the difference in cultures,
the origin of man. And that actually-that interest goes back to
even when I was a kid, with prehistoric things such as
dinosaurs, man, and so on and so forth. But as I've gotten
older, one of the things that maybe sparked some real passion
for history was understanding religion, understanding European
culture. I also, of course, try to find and strive as much as I
can for Afrocentism history as much as I can, because it's a
very fascinating history, whether you look at the Egyptians'
dynasties, the several early dynasties of Egypt, or the Moors. I
mean, there's a host of so much history about our culture that
has been hidden, that it takes a lot of research, a lot of
chores and challenges to find out that information but it's
always been a passion.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Did you go to segregated or integrated schools?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Both. Washington School was integrated. And
Willard and Lawhead, which were some of the original
African-American schools in the community, Lawhead and Willard
School in particular. Washington came about somewhat about -- in
the early '50's. And pretty much anyone in the north end, those
are the schools you went to. Part of the time we went to--Well,
actually I was fortunate enough to go a segregated school -- I
was in the 3rd grade, which would've been in '58 or '59, and so
I had that opportunity of going to an integrated school at an
early age, compared to a lot of my peers.
MARKISHA MOTTON: So did you look at going to the integrated
school as being an opportunity, or did you like the all
African-American school better?
IVON RIDGEWAY: I probably, at one point, didn't give it a lot of
thought, probably the biggest impact from moving is that I was
moving from the kids that I had started out at Tot Lot with,
which was also an African-American daycare in this community,
and going to kindergarten in Washington School. So I spent 3 or
4 years with those kids, besides playing with the neighborhood.
And from there, I went to Columbia School, which was integrated.
I didn't give it a lot of thought. We probably-all we looked at
each other at that point was just kids. Probably didn't have my
first racial experience of there was a difference between us
until we were probably in the 5th or 6th grade, playing flag
football.
MARKISHA MOTTON: What happened when you were playing flag
football that you realized that there is a difference between
African-Americans and Caucasian Americans?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, let me kind of back up. We always knew that
there was a difference from that perspective. But I guess that
most-one of the things that stands out mostly in my head is
the-probably five or six of us or so of us that were in class
together, and we played ball, we played soccer, we played, you
know, in PE. But that particular night, one of the white guys,
one of the white boys said, "White guys on one side, and colored
guys on the other side." Up to that point, I don't think any of
us had given it a great deal of - looking at anything as being a
difference. We just looked at each other as kids, 'cause we went
to each other's house for lunch, and walked to school with each
other. So that was probably one of the first experiences that
probably will always stand out in my head more than anything
else that I can remember.
MARKISHA MOTTON: How did that make you feel when he said that
somewhat rude comment?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, since we're on radio, we will leave it at
[chuckle] "No, we will not do that. We're just going to get
whoever is the best player on each team, and that's it." White
or black, it didn't make any difference. So that's kind of how
we looked at that. There were a few other words, I'm sure, that
were a part of that dialogue.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Did you guys change when you went to an
integrated school?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Actually, I would say they probably became worse.
Yeah, I would say that they became worse.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Why do you think that is?
IVON RIDGEWAY: You know, I really couldn't answer that. I don't
know if it was maybe something that personally I was going
through as a little boy. I don't know. I will say this, though,
my 3rd and 4th grade teacher was very instrumental in a lot of
things that I learned. As far as basic math, I had
multiplication. My first clarinet was from that particular
teacher. And so, even though I was having a difficult time, and
you know, I can only speak for myself. I don't think it was
necessarily because it was an integrated school. 'Cause I
thought she was a very good teacher, and she died somewhat at a
young age. But she was very passionate with really working with
all of us. And it even goes back to the story of a young man,
once we were in junior high school, that had the high IQ, was
also in that class. And she always tried to find the best out of
all of us and encouraged us.
MARKISHA MOTTON: What school experiences were life shaping and
life changing when you were a young child, when you were a young
teen or even a young man attending college?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, probably one of the biggest things that
stands out in my head is probably when I was a young man
attending college. This was somewhat-I'm trying to reflect back
in mind-would've been a period when a lot of activity was going
on-when Martin Luther King, as I mentioned before, Malcolm X and
so many other individuals that were very outspoken. And, of
course, the Vietnam War had become a big player in the field of
politics and understanding some of your choices. Because now we
were talking about going to war and possibly never coming back.
And that we also too with a great deal of our friends. So I
would say that that was probably-and I actually could even go
back to when I was a junior or senior in high school with this
one, because it already impacted me at that particular point,
besides the blacks in the South being watered down, the dogs
being sicked on women and children. It kind of goes back to that
statement I mentioned a little earlier about Martin Luther King.
Well, some of us did not see to turn the other cheek, not with
the total blatant attitudes and disrespect that they had for us
as human beings. So it somewhat opened up the door for me,
opened up my eyes of understanding a little bit more. Also
listening to what our parents said a lot, but they were somewhat
restrained and not very comfortable with saying it out in the
open, where we were a little bit more vocal. And, of course,
I've probably been very vocal ever since I was a little fellow.
But I would say that was one of the key periods of my life that
maybe changed the direction of how I looked at the world, how I
looked at education, just the whole aspect and dynamics of life
at that point. To go to a man's war that we felt necessarily was
not really a positive thing for our community.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Were there cases where you felt discriminated
against in your school or buses, in the classroom, by teachers,
by the classes you were allowed to take, et cetera, such as like
they told you to take workshop, or other situations where you
were discriminated against?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, it's very hard to find a particular point.
In a lot of ways, I maybe could've been maybe more naïve than
some of my peers, because my life was not quite as hard as
coming from a very poor family, not that we had any money, but
they did the best for us, so we always had nice clothes and we
went to church every Sunday. So we did all of the things that
were the norm of the community. So there was a positive side of
my life that I would say probably always gave me the energy and
the desire and passion to never be caught up in being rejected
from anything. The bottom line is not accepting what somebody
said to me that I could not do. It was just really that simple
to me. One thing that I probably always believed in, which was,
I don't know, maybe more of an intimidating factor than it
probably was-well, I'll just say that it probably was more of an
intimidating factor, because at that time, most European men did
not want you looking at 'em eyeball to eyeball. Keep in mind in
that era and time, blacks were still looked at, even as we look
at the situation with Brown vs. the Board of Education, we were
just not accepted. So we were also treated like second-class
citizens. You know, they made very nasty racial slurs and so on
and so forth. I never was intimidated by that. So I always put
my head up high, put my shoulders out, and looked at an
individual eyeball to eyeball to challenge whatever they were
trying to throw at me. Because I figured I could respond to
whatever they threw at me.
MARKISHA MOTTON: How did you feel about being bused to
Centennial, and did you live closer to Central?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Basically we all lived closer to Central. I grew
up on 6th and Bradley. And, of course, Centennial was out
southwest of Champaign. Of course, Central was downtown
Champaign. So, of course, we were all much closer to Central
High School. Or, if you lived on the northeast side of Urbana,
of course, you were closer to Urbana High School. But we didn't
really like it. Probably about the only thing that was exciting
to us is that it was a brand new school, you know, so we could
almost set our own precedent in how we wanted to handle things.
But overall, no, we did not care for it. We did not care to ride
on buses, and a lot of times the bus drivers were not very nice
to us. There were issues with that, so they eventually had
militant-I can't remember-we called him Butterball. He
eventually became one of our bus drivers, for somebody "to
handle" us. So, no, we didn't personally care for it. We didn't
like getting up a half an hour earlier or an hour earlier. We
felt like they were not very acceptable and responsive to us
when we went to that school. We felt that arrogance of the rich
kids out in southwest Champaign that were there, where their
moms and dads had bought them cars, and we're talking about
sophomores and some juniors. So there were a lot of things that
we didn't care for as far as being bused. There again, when I
say "we", we talked about it enough on a day to day basis,
everyday we went to school, so I could somewhat collectively
speak for a whole host of us that were part of my peers.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Do you remember any specific event that
happened on the bus that was memorable as far as you being -
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, I can think of a host of 'em as well. I
mean, keep in mind, we were kids, just like you young folks are.
And so, we had a good time. We listened to the radio, we popped
our fingers, we talked smack with each other. You know, we just
hung out. And I was a part of that mix, I guess you would say,
one of the popular ones in the group at school. So we had a good
time. So there is a lot things, of course. There were a lot of
gang activities going on when we were young. And those were all
challenges. And, you know, we had all developed that from our
community. But if you were a part of that group in one shape,
form, or another, then you were pretty much accepted, so you
pretty much had a nice time. And as we prepared to get off the
bus, you could hear the mumbling and grumbling, like "Here we
go." But I'm sure kids still do that today whenever it's time
for the bell to ring and it's time to go to school. So there's a
lot of things, but I can never overall think of very little that
was negative, because we found our own spaces. That's what we
really did. We really found our own space, and if we had to
nudge into somebody else's space, that's what we did to survive.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Did you belong to any clubs?
IVON RIDGEWAY: School wise?
MARKISHA MOTTON: Such as in school or boys' and girls' club?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, back then there was not a boys' and girls'
club. We had Douglass Center, which was the-Well, that was our
boys' and girls' club. 'Cause see, you young folks-The community
has changed so much. When we were young, they offered roller
skating at Douglass Center. So that was the place to be. As they
say, that was the spot. That was the spot. You know? So we did
that. We partied there. And this young lady is laughing. It's so
hard for her to realize that we did the same thing that they do
now. You know? Hello! [chuckle] Just like you got it goin' on;
we had it goin' on too! [chuckle] But yeah, you know, there was
a host of things that we did within our community, and here
again, no boys' and girls' club. We had some mentors within the
community. We did everything primarily in our community.
Example: Just kind of going back a little bit, if you crossed
Bradley and where the tracks are on Bradley Street, northwest on
Bradley, at one point that was all white. So we stayed on one
side, from Bradley to maybe University, from Market or actually
from 4th Street coming over all the way north, up in that area,
we stayed in that area. So we created our own world in a lot of
ways. We played football, we played basketball. As I mentioned
earlier, we spent a lot of time in Douglass Center. Mr. Harvey
Blakely, Sr. was one of the African-American men in our
community. Bud Johnson. There were a host of African-American
men that stepped up to the plate to always encourage us and to
give us opportunities. And I'm sure there's tons of them. Nate
is another gentleman that I'm missing. But they were there for
us. And Ali was one that created boxing for us in the Douglass
Park. So that was our world there. We had the drum corps. As I
mentioned, the gentleman named Milton. Again, I can't
remember-it loses me-Milton's last name. But we called him
Butterball. Well, we jammed with the drums all summer long. We
had the sisters doing their thing with the batons. And that was
our world, and we clowned. That's what we did in our community.
We had a good time in there, you know? But sometimes when we
ventured out, that was where the challenges were. And by the
time our generation came along, we handled those challenges
pretty well.
MARKISHA MOTTON: In one of my interviews, the north end of
Champaign, that was mostly black, and the other half was mostly
white. Do you think that still exists in some way today?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Oh, definitely. I also do a little cab driving in
this community, so I get a chance to see this community all
over. And, yeah, there are still pockets of this community that
are completely separated. Now whether there is a combination of
other ethnic groups, that I can't really attest to. But there's
still a great deal of separation in our communities that should
not be. But, of course, that's economics. But I can say overall
that this town-And there was never a real major problem with
housing, to the point where there was just blatant
discrimination. Champaign and Urbana handled things, and I will
give them credit and attest to that, that they handle things
much better than some of the other areas, whether they were
either north of us or south of us or east or west. But this was
somewhat a progressive area, and it had a lot to do with the
University of Illinois. But overall, very little of just blatant
discrimination to eliminate you from anything in this community.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Alright. What college did you attend?
IVON RIDGEWAY: I went to Parkland College and also here at the
University of Illinois.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Do you feel that the African-Americans are
taking advantage of what people like Martin Luther King did for
us back then? Do you think we're taking advantage of that, as
far as going to the university or other universities, or do you
think that they're still thinking of themselves as lower class?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, I don't really think that very few
African-Americans think of themselves as lower class. I think
that way of thinking changed with our generation 30 years ago,
35 years ago. Now there can be some small percentages of
individuals in the community, I'm sure, that still struggle with
some of that. But overall I would say that we have strived a
great deal. The community itself, example would be-and hopefully
I'm getting these numbers right. I just happened to attend the
Black Students Association, the 500 Project a few months ago.
And very interesting to hear some of the history, and I do
remember some of this from my older cousin, which was very
instrumental in a lot of the ways that I thought, because he
taught me how to draw and play chess even when I was real small.
But getting back to the point is I can remember him and his
friends going to the university, and this was probably in the
late '50's, and there were very few African-Americans out at the
university. The 500 Project attendance that I went to, which was
the 35th anniversary a few months ago, in the year 2003, the
gentleman spoke and he said that he can remember in 1966 or '65,
thereabout, maybe there were less than 20 African-Americans at
the University of Illinois. Now, around '67, '68, there became,
of course, with the Civil Rights Movement and the legislation
that President Lyndon Johnson had written in as far as the
Voting Rights Act and so on and so forth, the whites had started
to open up a great deal to make this a balance in what was going
on, whether it was education, housing, jobs, or so on and so
forth. And one of the things that happened was the big impact at
the University of Illinois. And so, blacks have made a great
deal-kind of getting to the answer of your question-blacks have
made a great deal of progress. An example is Dr. Patterson
himself. He's achieved a great deal. That opportunity possibly
was very limited 35 years ago, 40 years ago, even somewhere
thereabout after that. But things have happened where progress
has been made. As you young folks are doing engineering and
you're doing the interview, those opportunities weren't there.
So there has to be a major impact that we've achieved a great
deal. As I said, there's a long road to go because there are
things that-and for the sake of just being politically correct
on this one, there are a host of things that try to continuously
hinder some of the progress that are currently going on now. But
up until this point and currently as we speak, there are a host
of things. The armed services have been a positive role model in
our community since back with - I can't think of the President's
name just before Eisenhower, when he integrated the armed
services. So there's been a host of things that have happened
over the last 50 years that said that we've achieved a great
deal. And we're continuously making progress. Dr. Condalisa
Rice, is one of the head individuals for the President of the
United States. That's an awesome achievement. Or, the gentleman
that's the head of the education for the United States; he's
African-American, out of Texas. So there are things that we've
achieved. There's a lot of progress. The only thing that I-My
argument is, and I will always have this position, is never
forget where you come from. Because without those folks dying
from trying to vote and so on and so forth, those opportunities
would not have been open for these individuals that have
achieved that. So to answer the question, yes, we've made a lot
of progress, but there's a long way to go.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Okay. I wanna ask you one more question, sir,
before we wrap this up. If you can say anything to young
African-American children today, what would you say to them?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Probably the most important thing that I would
say, and I stress this with my children. I've been blessed to
have boys and young men and young ladies. And I always say to
them to invest in yourself, keep in mind whatever you're
achieving, whether you agree with what the instructor is saying,
whether you accept their ideology or their philosophy or even
necessarily do not accept their delivery in the manner that they
do, never give up on trying to always instill as much knowledge
as you can within yourself, and keep in mind, and I use this
example all the time: investing in yourself, which means that
every opportunity that you get to read something, to analyze it,
to break it down, ask questions. Do not ever be intimidated to
ask questions, and always strive for the best. And I will pass
that on to each and every young person that I know, whomever
they are, whether they're African-American, or children of all.
Let me just add something to this one real quickly. I did a
program with one of the local community based radio stations for
Martin Luther King, in which they did several essays. And I
thought just to go back to Brown vs. the Board of Education. The
young lady, Linda, that was the key component that that was all
around, Linda Brown, that was all this was around, thinking back
of all of what she had to take on in 1950, which was very hard.
I wasn't even born then. But to understand it, 'cause she was 8
years old when this process started. Of course, it's all decided
in 1954. But I say all this to say this, is that our children
should always, as I said, invest in theirselves. And when I was
doing that radio program, I listened to a lot of different young
folks that primarily had wrote some essays. And there were
several different ethnic groups, whether they were Asian,
African-American, white, and that's from some of the rural
areas. And their attitude about understanding how important
Brown vs. the Board of Education and the impact it's left on all
of us, because what it did is open up the door for each and
every one of us to always strive for the best and to say that we
cannot be separated or disposed of as if we're only
connected-like we're totally insignificant. So, yeah, there's a
host of things, and I guess here again, I was very proud of
listening to the different perspectives of those young folks,
because it really made me think of how fortunate I was for that
young lady and her parents and some of the other parents
involved in that to step up and challenge a system that had
said, "No way we will let your black children come into our
schools." And to achieve and get to the point where we have,
it's been a plus, and it's been a long journey, but a blessed
journey.
MARKISHA MOTTON: Well, I thank you for your time, Mr. Ridgeway.
And it was a pleasure having you.
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, thank you for having me. Thank you very
much.
Q: A few follow-ups. I wonder, Mr. Ridgeway, if you could
tell-they haven't talked to anyone from the Black Power
generation. When you mentioned Stokely Carmichael and H. Rap
Brown, can you-You had started off by saying that the shackles
that were placed on us, we didn't accept. They were hearing from
people who were much older than you, who couldn't go to the
swimming pools, couldn't sit in the theaters, couldn't do lots
of things, couldn't sit at the lunch counter at the same place.
So I wonder if you could explain to Markisha what you mean by
Black Power and the attitude you have and how it's different
from a generation that's older than you. If you could kind of
explain that, 'cause I hear you saying that's the generation you
were coming from.
IVON RIDGEWAY: Exactly. Well, you know, to elaborate on that,
and you brought out a very good point. The generation before us,
that would be our parents, they had migrated from the South,
from the early '20's, '30's, and '40's. And, of course, they had
dealt with so much racism and being second class citizens. So
they spent a lot of their time saying to us what we had to do,
and this was the only way that you had to respond. And it was
almost like a yes sir, or they'd come and pat you on your head
and tell you you're a good boy, and that was the only way that
you were somewhat being accepted in the white world, or being-I
don't wanna use the word "accepted" but being that you're a good
boy in the white man's world. Well, our generation primarily
said huh-uh, no. I can speak. I can articulate. What you do,
sir, I can do the same thing. I'm not intimidated by you, and if
you wanna bear arms against us, we can bear arms against you. So
there's a host of things that were going on. Stokely Carmichael,
H. Rap Brown, of course you see-And I'm sure you've had
opportunity from the 1968, I believe it was, when the Olympics,
with Tommy Smith and Lee Brown, I believe was the gentleman. I
can't think of the other brother's name-Carlos something-did the
Black Power stand at the Olympics when they won the meters, the
100-yard meters-I think it was 100-yard meters. That was very
impressive. So our generation had said-we had looked at all of
this throughout the country, not only just here in Champaign,
but throughout the country, and we were beginning to understand
that we did not have to feel like we're second class citizens.
You could not keep your foot on us and tell us this is the only
way that we could live. We refused to accept it. And so, I think
we had also realized that what they had been telling our parents
and generations before then-and that even goes back to my
conversation with my great-grandfather when I was a little boy,
when I was in Kentucky. And when they said when I'd go downtown
that I have to say yes sir and no ma'am and almost step back,
because that's the way that they did it down there. Well, I'm
sorry, I grew up in Champaign, so it did not connect with me,
you know, so I'd stand up there and give the lady my quarter,
and I might say yes ma'am, but I'm saying yes ma'am for respect
as an adult, as my elder, not yes ma'am because you're white,
because that's the way I was raised. And, of course, my folks
didn't play that, "You'd better say yes ma'am and yes sir." But
otherwise, we looked at all of those things collectively and
realized that something was wrong with this picture, and we were
not going to be disrespected. That's the bottom line, too. We
just refused to be disrespected. I can remember a friend of
mine, and he's, by the way, one dynamic worldwide artist, and
he's right here out of Champaign, and he works for the
University of Illinois. I can remember in 8th grade that one of
the white teachers came and approached him with a very
aggressive approach, and he stood his ground. That is what our
mindset was; we stood our ground. If we felt like you were
insulting us, coming at us in a very negative manner, that it
was unacceptable. You couldn't say that the only job I could
have - and it goes back to something I mentioned a little
earlier, of my grandfather here in Champaign laying asphalt. And
they had an asphalt place up on 5th and Bradley, excuse me, 4th
and Bradley. 'Cause what it looked like to us was a chain gang,
only they had the blacks working, doing that, and Mr. Whitey was
in his car. In [inaudible] you still see it today, but that's
another story. We have made some progress, so I'll leave that
one alone. But to get back to the point is that we saw those
things. Or, you went to Grants or Kresges, and the only one that
was washing dishes-and keep in mind that you didn't have the
dishwasher back then; folks washed dishes by hand-was the
blacks. Some of the jobs that we had when we were 12 or 13, at
that time they'd let you work when you were 12 or 13. You did
all of the second class jobs. That's what you really did. So our
generation, with the exposure of some of the more progressive
individuals, whether it was, as I mentioned, Malcolm X, which
was probably one of the most key components, very instrumental
in a lot of identity, 'cause you either chose and went along
with Martin Luther King's ideology or you went along with
Malcolm's ideology. Or, I shouldn't say just only Malcolm's, but
Islam itself, the honorable Elijah Mohammed and so on and so
forth. So we began to realize that there was something wrong
with this picture, and the superiority of whites was
unacceptable. You know, "How dare you put your foot on us and
make us feel like we were unworthy people." And they were a very
big impact in my life. Yes?
Q: The other interview and we have a meeting-
IVON RIDGEWAY: Oh, what time is it? Yeah.
Q: Can we ask you one more thing?
IVON RIDGEWAY: Sure.
Q: This is really important. This is great. You had said that
you were fortunate to go to an integrated school, but at the
same time you were being bused [inaudible] to an integrated
school.
IVON RIDGEWAY: Right.
Q: Explain that, 'cause it seems contradictory.
IVON RIDGEWAY: Well, actually what I-And I'll back up on that
one. When I mentioned the integrated school, that was at grade
school, and I walked to that school. As a matter of fact, that
was actually before the Civil Rights legislation that came
about. And that would've been in the late '50's, early '60's.
Now what I meant about the busing, that's when we went to
Centennial. Now we were fortunate in one aspect of it, because
it was a new school, and we had had opportunity to go to an air
conditioned school, swimming pool-all of those components were
there. So that was the plus. That was the incentive that we
somewhat accepted from that. Whereas Central didn't have all of
those things. But when I mentioned that, I was really talking
about two different time periods of when I was much younger and,
of course, once we were going to Centennial, that was right
after the Civil Rights legislation had been written in by Lyndon
Johnson and that administration.
Q: Thank you. That clarifies it.
IVON RIDGEWAY: Okay.
Q: They tell me I gotta rush out of here.
IVON RIDGEWAY: Alright. No problem.
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Ivon Ridgeway is a radio announcer and cab driver. He was among the
first group of Black school children to be bused from the north end to the south
end of town to desegregate the schools. He was born in 1952 and is 52
years old at the time of the interview.
listen
to the Ivon Ridgeway interview